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AI for Kids
Welcome to "AI for Kids" (and their parents and teachers), the podcast that makes exploring artificial intelligence (AI) a fun and safe adventure for young learners and their families.
Episodes are packed with exciting stories, easy-to-understand explanations, and engaging interviews with both curious kids and leading AI experts. We break down everything from the basics of machine learning to the ethics of AI, making complex ideas simple and thrilling.
"AI for Kids" is the perfect place for parents, teachers, and children to learn together about the technology that’s shaping our future. Whether your child is fascinated by robots or you want to stay ahead of the curve on AI, this podcast offers a safe and enjoyable way to dive into the world of artificial intelligence. Join us on this journey into the future, starting today!
AI for Kids
Why AI in School is More Than Homework Help (Middle+)
Ever wonder how artificial intelligence can revolutionize education? In this episode, we sit down with the incredible Dr. Nneka McGee, an educator, researcher, and advocate dedicated to integrating AI into schools. As a former teacher turned district leader, Dr. McGee shares her vision for how AI can simplify complex tasks like high school master scheduling and make learning more efficient and accessible for all students.
🔹 What You’ll Learn:
- How AI is reshaping education and classroom learning
- Dr. McGee’s innovative approach to AI-driven high school scheduling
- Why equitable access to AI tools is critical for students
- How teachers are learning about AI from their peers
- The importance of introducing kids to AI early
- Fun and interactive AI trivia game
- Online safety laws like COPPA and FERPA explained
- Real-world examples of AI’s impact across industries
Artificial intelligence is everywhere—from medicine to sports to everyday apps. But how can we ensure kids have the knowledge and access they need to thrive in an AI-powered world? Dr. McGee helps us unpack this question, offering powerful insights into the role of AI in education and why responsible tech use is more important than ever. Plus, we dive into online safety, exploring key regulations that protect young users online.
Join us for this insightful conversation and a fun AI trivia game! Be sure to subscribe to AI for Kids on your favorite podcast platform or YouTube and share this episode with friends and family.
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Welcome to the AI for Kids podcast, where playtime, learning and creating collide bit by bit. Ever wonder how your phone recognizes your face. How does a game learn to get harder as you get better? This is AI. This podcast is designed for kids like you and your human parents, making the complex world of AI easy to understand and, most importantly, fun. So are you ready to unlock the mysteries of artificial intelligence? Subscribe and join us on AI for Kids. Hi everyone, welcome back to AI for Kids. Today we have a super cool guest. Please welcome, Dr. Nneka McGee. Dr Nneka J McGee is an awesome teacher and researcher who knows a lot about AI and how it can help kids learn. That's exactly what we're here for on the AI for Kids podcast. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what do you do?
Nneka McGee:So thank you so much for having me today, amber. I appreciate the invitation and please call me Nneka. We're so formal, sometimes in academic settings, so I love to connect with people with my first name. I am a, as you said, teacher first. I am a district leader second. And third, I am a researcher of artificial intelligence in education, also a consultant, which means I give advice to individuals and businesses and school districts about how to implement, and that means how we use AI in schools in a safe and effective way.
Amber Ivey:So I want to dig in so deep there. But before I go deep with that, I want to ask you a few questions just about your childhood. What was your favorite subject back when you were a kid and did you always like learning and technology and teaching?
Nneka McGee:So my favorite subject when I was young was anything having to do with math or science, and more so the sciences. I had a computer ever since I was 10 years of age, which is a long time considering my age. But what I love is that my parents were both educators and my mom worked at a university where they had these really huge computers, and so I was so excited about these computers that I begged and begged and begged like can I get a computer? And I was happy and blessed to went on my birthday to receive a computer, and since that time I've had a love of computers, of coding and different aspects of the you know world of computers. But at the same time I also love math, and I actually taught math middle school mathematics when I was teaching.
Amber Ivey:Oh, so you're definitely in the right place here. If you could build an AI tool. Being that you've had a computer for a very long time, I imagine this is going to come easy to you. If you could build an AI tool to solve a problem, what would it do and why?
Nneka McGee:So thank you for the question and as a part of my work as a district administrator so I was a teacher and then I moved up into district administration, which means I serve the entire district, a whole bunch of schools, and one of the issue for not elementary or middle school, but more for high school was what they call master scheduling, and basically what this is is when you have to gather all of the students, information and all of the kind of courses that they want to take, which is unlike the other grades where it's kind of set. When you're in high school you get to have a lot of choices school. You get to have a lot of choices and what happens is that it's really hard for counselors, who usually do the work, or even the systems we have now, to make the system easier for implementation, which means making it easier to use and apply for all of our students. So if I had an AI tool that I could create, it would be a system that would help master scheduling for our students and our staff easier.
Amber Ivey:I didn't even think about that until this moment, like when I was in high school and giving like, choosing my options, that someone had to put all that stuff together across all students, across class size, and that's just such an amazing way to use AI. I really love that idea and thank you for sharing. Hopefully you or someone else can create an AI that does that.
Nneka McGee:Please, I'll be the first customer.
Amber Ivey:There you go, see kids, you have a customer if you want to create that tool, and I'm sure one of these LLMs or large language models or chatbots can help you do that. So I want to jump into some of the stuff around. Just your background so you did a big project on how teachers are using AI in schools. Can you tell us why you chose to study that?
Nneka McGee:So, yes, so when I decided to go to graduate school, I already had one graduate degree, and this is after college.
Nneka McGee:But again, I was so interested in computers and once I transitioned into teaching, I started to realize that there were gaps with teaching and technology technology.
Nneka McGee:So, even before you've heard about chat, gpt and large language models, llms, artificial intelligence has been around for so long, and so, even back then, I started studying artificial intelligence in depth in 2018.
Nneka McGee:And then, because I was studying it for so long, I decided I should get what we call a doctorate degree, and as part of that doctorate, I had to do a dissertation, which is a very comprehensive research project on, and my topic was artificial intelligence, education and how teachers were impacted and how students were impacted and how students were impacted, and so, basically, it's an extension of what the you know, when I was younger, on a computer coding and didn't realize some of the conversations around me were about artificial intelligence, or subsets, what they call parts of artificial intelligence versus where I was when I was actually studying it and researching it, and at the end of that, I had to present my research in order to get my dissertation approved, which was very interesting because you have to kind of defend your work, and so that was exciting. But at the end of it I did receive my doctorate degree, and so I'm excited about that. Thank, you.
Amber Ivey:That is absolutely, absolutely amazing, and anytime someone goes for their doctorate degree, I'm always just impressed with the amount of time it takes, the amount of research you're doing, just all the skills you're bringing together. So thank you for even explaining that topic here for the kids, because I think many of them are going to go on to get their doctorate degrees as well, and I think just understanding the process even at this beginning stage is super helpful. So, within that research, what's something surprising? You found out about teachers using AI in the classroom.
Nneka McGee:So the most surprising thing that I found out is how much teachers rely on their colleagues to learn about different topics, and it's similar to how, when we were younger, in our audience as kids, you rely on your friends for different you know things and different questions you have. Before you may go to an adult or to a family member, and it's the same with teachers. Teachers would much rather learn from the teacher down the hall as opposed to going to a coach or to a principal or to someone else, and I found that to be very interesting when it came to learning about artificial intelligence, because they were seeking out their colleagues before. They would try to look for professional development to learn more about AI or any of the other tools at their disposal.
Amber Ivey:That's so interesting, but it definitely makes sense the way you just broke it down. Like you said, kids go to their friends first. We all go to our friends first before we Google. There are times where, even like post-internet, where we have all the information at our fingertips, we still go to another human first to figure out how to access it. So that makes complete sense. Was there anything else that was either shocking or that you learned that you think is important to share?
Nneka McGee:So I think one thing that is important to share is the importance of ensuring that all students have access to the tools of the future, and I want to talk a little bit about what access means.
Nneka McGee:It's one thing of, like you said, so many of us have phones and where we use our phones. We use our phones, and actually what's interesting is that phones, for the most part, have AI systems running them that you may you'll never see. They run in the background, but so that's one type of access. But what's important is is that if we're looking for information or we're working on a project or working on something with our friends, and we enter something into an AI-powered tool or resource and the information that is provided to us does not reflect who we are, our experiences or how we deal with our daily lives, then we have not, in my view, provided access, and so it's important that, as kids, we remain engaged in the process, because even when you're young, you're engaged in the process for how our future will be, and that's exciting and for adults to be mindful of the information that is provided by artificial intelligence systems to ensure that it does reflect you know what the world looks like at a global scale, because that's so important for our students.
Amber Ivey:Yeah, I think that's just a great point and the way you frame that around. If it doesn't basically get in line with who you are as a person, that means you can't access it in a way that someone else who it may align with the way they live and how they interact with life. So that's just a really good example. Why is it so important for kids to learn about AI just at this stage in their lives, this stage in their lives.
Nneka McGee:Well, I believe that AI is. Not only has it been our past, like I said, AI has been in use in education and I like to say this since the 1900s.
Nneka McGee:I was born in the 1900s, right, that sounds so wrong 1900s, but it's been around for about 60 years and so when you think about that, that it's been here for a long time actually in use in education, and so it's not something new. But the applications of AI and how it's used in society is new, and so students need to be aware not only how it's used in your system you know, in your phones, perhaps, or maybe if you have a smart TV or any of those ways that it's used outside of education and then how it's used inside, and it doesn't matter. So I'll give you a quick example, because I feel this is so interesting, because someone's, like someone asked me a younger individual that was in high school well, I want to be a hairdresser, and they were in a program, a career and technical, what we call a CTE program. So I don't, I don't see how, as a cosmetologist, I don't see how this is going to impact me, and I was like I just came from an airport where they have an AI system that will now do your nails, and then they have robots yes, that will sit down and actually do the eyelashes. Well, they do the eyelashes extensions and the eyes widen and I said, but this doesn't mean it's going to take your place.
Nneka McGee:What it does mean is that you, as a cosmetology student, need to be aware of the systems that you may use to benefit your clients, and so that's what I want for kids today. It's like don't think of it as just. I don't want to be a computer scientist. Right, you can hear a student in their head.
Nneka McGee:I don't want to do a whole bunch of computer science, but it's not just the aspects of being in front of a computer all day. It's something as simple as getting your nails done or getting your eyelashes done, or even at that level, it's really going to impact. Or for medical if a student is interested in going into the medical field, how are you using AI to predict or to support how to help your client? Your, excuse me, as a physician, if you decide to be that, you know how will you help your patients heal? Ai is going to be a large part of that, and so, as we continue to look at how it's going to impact our lives as student, there's no time like the present to become aware of the systems and how they work within our society.
Amber Ivey:That's such a good point and I'm thankful that you are bringing up other uses of AI, because I don't want kids to think about this is just for folks who are computer scientists or who want to learn coding and things like that. It's more than that Like AI is going to be a part and is already a part of all of our lives, unless we're living in the middle of nowhere and don't have access to any technology. It's going to be a part of all of our lives. So just understanding your part in it.
Amber Ivey:I know I went to a school, had a similar situation where I was asking kids about sports or no. I asked a general question. It was like what fields or careers do you believe will not be touched by technology or AI? And someone brought up sports and we were able to, like, break that down down to explain like no, that's like one of the biggest areas where AI and things like that are being used, whether it's for playback of videos or thinking about how math is used and just becoming a better athlete. There's so many ways to think about these tools and it goes beyond the person who is helping, who's building them, but also, how do you use them in your career in your everyday life, so I really appreciate you for calling that out. So do you want to play a quick game?
Nneka McGee:Okay, I don't know how good I'm horrible at games, but try me out, okay cool.
Amber Ivey:So I'm going to ask you some fun questions about AI or technology and you have to try to answer as quickly as you can. Okay, the kids at home will also play wherever you are. Also get ready to answer the question as well. So I'm going to start with, hopefully, a softball, but this one also has a little, a little color around it, so I may have to explain the answer. But quickest answer when I say it which company created the first AI assistant? Ai assistant.
Nneka McGee:So it wasn't a company, it was an individual and the system is called ELISA and it's from way back and this was the initial. Elisa was a system that would try to attempt to have natural conversations with individuals, but of course now they have more comprehensive systems. Did I get it right?
Amber Ivey:So there's multiple answers to this one. So any of these answers are fine. Eliza is fine. That's one answer. A second answer could be IBM's Shoebox, which also was developed back in the 60s. That one could do arithmetic and I think it recognized like 16 words or something like that. And then, if you wanted to go to modern day, I was also okay with Siri, which is the first digital known digital assistant in contemporary form, and it was introduced in 2011. So you're fine with Eliza, as long as you hit one of those that's trying to get easy. So there is an answer there. I'll take it. I got one point, okay. Next question kids. Hopefully you got that right. If not, now you have a question to quiz someone else on. So question two which ai technique is modeled after the human brain?
Amber Ivey:Well, it's not natural language processing but I guess it does start with an N. Huh, you know the answer? I'm sure I do, but the only thing.
Nneka McGee:I'm thinking of is like, I mean a subset of ai, I'm thinking machine learning, neural networks yes, there you go.
Amber Ivey:Okay, that's what I was thinking.
Nneka McGee:The human brain okay, like the brain, I was like, I know this I was like she's going to probably overthink it for a second. I'm going down the line Like okay, okay, all right, I got two points, I'm a, I'm a, take it Okay great.
Amber Ivey:And then last question, this one also going to have a two part answer. So what companies AI defeated the world champion in the game of Go in 2016?
Nneka McGee:It should be IBM Watson.
Amber Ivey:No, that would have been my first thought. This one was Google DeepMind.
Nneka McGee:Oh, yeah, that was the other one because the time period.
Amber Ivey:That's why I was like I don't know if she's going to get the 2016 part, but yeah. So I do want to add a bonus question for you and our listeners. Do you know the?
Nneka McGee:name of that AI. I don't but was Go. So just and I I'm just just because I am overthinking, but go was a really complicated game. Right, they had so many, it's very complicated and it originates from an Asian country. Am I correct about?
Amber Ivey:that exactly right.
Nneka McGee:I mean, I'm thinking through it, but my mind is drawing a blank. And it was the first AI to do it. I'm drawing a blank. I hate to say it. My brain is still in Watson.
Amber Ivey:No problem. So and then for the listeners the first person that works with your parents to send us a text through our podcast channel, you're going to win a gift card, a $25 gift card for this. So I'm not going to say the answer on air, but I will share with you when we get off the get off the phone, kids. Hopefully you enjoyed that segment. Again, if you want to figure out the bonus, be the first person to text us through the podcast and you'll win a gift card. So you're part of some really cool groups that work on AI and education. Can you tell us about one of them and what they do?
Nneka McGee:groups- that work on AI and education. Can you talk about one of them and what they do so? And this, I think, is a great opportunity to recognize different organizations who are in the work, and that I would recommend, because there's a lot of noise and you'll see whether it's a kid or whether it's your siblings or whether it's your parents. There are legal guardians. There is a lot of information out there, so I'd like to have those core few resources that I would say these are kind of go-to resources. So the first one would be ISTE, and why I like ISTE is it's a nonprofit, but it provides. Not only has it been doing courses for AI since 2018, but it also provides hands on guides for all grade levels, and so when we're thinking about things such as safety, particularly for our younger students, they've already fed it in their resource, you know, so you can trust these resources already vetted and their resource, you know, so you can trust these resources. Another company or organization that I would recommend would be Digital Promise, and a reason what I like about Digital Promise and why I think it's important, is that they are also a research-based organization and, because of that, a lot of the research that they are working on and the reports that they write. Again, you know that there can be some trust attributed to that.
Nneka McGee:People can trust those resources based on the amount of research, based on the part it's a bipartisan, meaning they don't choose sides in terms of, you know, political. What they do is try to work on the good for everyone, not only when it comes to artificial intelligence, but other types of technology. And the last organization that I'll mention is MIT RAISE. They actually created the day of AI a couple of years ago. They actually created the day of AI a couple of years ago. And, again, what I appreciate by organizations such as MIT RAISE and the day of AI, which was created to bring awareness around AI education, is the importance of creating tools that are age appropriate, depending on if you're young, if you're just coming up as a kindergarten student, or if you're a middle school student or if you're graduating, and so they've really researched the sources and the tools that they, you know, have available for students and others to use.
Amber Ivey:That's so great. I heard of the first one, not the second one. The third one I've heard of just because of Day Up AI. So those are just great examples and I'm looking forward to sharing those in the show notes. For folks who want to dig deeper, let's shift to the idea of rules around AI. I believe there are rules about how AI can be used for kids who are under 13. And I'm sure kids who are listening who may be under 13 are wondering what are those rules, or how can they know when to use these tools, or what are the rules allowing them to use these tools or preventing them? What's out there right now?
Nneka McGee:So there are definitely rules, and I know that kids, if you try to go onto a site, a lot of times you'll have a question like are you 13 years of age or older? And there's a reason why that question is there and it's because of what is called the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, which is also called COPPA, and that law actually states that companies and organizations that have certain technology tools, if you are 13 years of age or younger, that you must have explicit. That means your parents must give their consent or agreement for you to use that technology, and explicit means it's not just a blanket like every tool you can use. They have to understand that it's for that particular product, and so that is what COPPA is for and why it is used, and really it does help support, you know, appropriateness there are some tools that are just not appropriate based on the age level of the student, and that is another kind of regulation that's federal that kids may need to know about, is called FERPA.
Nneka McGee:It applies to many more years of a student's education versus COPPA, which is only until the age of 13 or younger, and COPPA is the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, and why this is important is because, as kids, we're interacting with some type of program and it's asking us for our name and it's asking us what city we live in, if it's asking us how old we are. That is what is called personally identifiable information, and under FERPA, that information, when it's dealing with educational settings, is protected, because we don't want kids' information out there so that people who do not have the kids' best interest in mind use that information in basically bad ways. And so those are two very important regulations that students, I think, and kids need to be aware of.
Amber Ivey:How else can kids stay safe on top of these regulations when using AI tools or learning about these new technologies?
Nneka McGee:I'm always going to say first, as kids, when you're at a home setting, I know it's hard, but get your parents' permission, yes, make sure they're aware. And what's important about getting permission, and why it's important, is because that's a tool you can help your parents learn about. You know, a tool that you're using. I know I've needed help from my younger you know, like, hey, help me out. And so that's one important way. The other thing is, of course, being realistic. There may be times when you're encountering, you know, some type of program, you're online or there's some app. The first thing is is not to provide information where someone can identify you. So, whether it's your name, whether it's your age and I want to be very clear here Even your image in your face right now can be used in artificial intelligence systems. Some years ago, a Facebook game or app where you would take a picture of your face and then it would kind of age you or glow you up.
Nneka McGee:And basically what happened? And glow up means make you look better, but basically it was a tool that was collecting people's faces and using that for another reason. When we say personally identifiable, it doesn't just mean something that you can write. It also means your facial image and also physical descriptors of who you are. So if they said, oh well, it's a lady with a blue shirt on that wears glasses and I'm the only one in the building, well, you've identified me.
Nneka McGee:What I would say is the most important thing that kids can do is when they encounter situations where a parent isn't involved or an adult isn't involved, and they're introduced to an app and it's just there is first you can turn it off. You can't turn away, which is the safest thing, but please do not enter in any information that can identify you and who you are and who your family is, and those who you care about and who you are and who your family is, and those who you care about.
Amber Ivey:That's so many great points, because sometimes I mean, we have to be realistic. Sometimes Kids are going to encounter these things some way in some shape. So to give them that really solid information that, hey, kids, don't put anything in here that can identify your likeness, descriptions about yourself, your age, your where you live, like I've seen kids even outside of apps accidentally tell people where they live because they're just talking to a stranger and sharing too much information. So I almost say apply the same things here that you would to anything else in life. Would you tell this to a stranger? Not the example where I just shared a kid actually telling a stranger. But you shouldn't tell a stranger certain things, and these apps are created by strangers, so you shouldn't also share that information with them.
Amber Ivey:I think that's just a really good point. To make it pretty easy Don't share any information, don't record your voice in it, don't do any of that stuff, because all that stuff can identify you and we want you all to remain safe when learning about these tools, above all, and anything else, definitely. So, nneka, we're going to do something fun to learn a little bit more about you. It's called two truths and a dream You're going to tell us two true facts about your life or dream or something related to your job, and then you're going to tell us one dream that you had while you were a kid. We're going to take time to guess which one was a dream. Please try to avoid your bio, because otherwise I cheat on accident and the kids can play at home.
Amber Ivey:But I will likely know the answer, so feel free to mix it up. Are you ready?
Nneka McGee:Okay, yes, go for it. Okay, run a half marathon, okay. Sing opera Okay, and cook a five-course meal without anyone getting sick.
Amber Ivey:There we go. You're funny. One was you threw me off. One was run a half marathon. Two was sing opera. Three was cook a five course meal without getting anyone sick. So, kids at home, you have to figure out which one of these are facts and which one's a dream. So, run a half marathon, you didn't say marathon. So I actually believe half, because I'm not trying to do a marathon, but most people try to do a half and that's actually something that folks can achieve. So let me leave that one on the table for right now.
Amber Ivey:Two sing opera. I don't know. I'm trying to think of the things we've learned about you. If Two sing opera, I don't know. I'm trying to think of the things we've learned about you. If singing opera would be something you've done, I'm going to pause on that one too. I'll come back to that one as well. And then, third, cook a five course meal without people getting sick. You added the caveat, so I'm going to say that's a fact just because of the caveat you added in. I could be wrong, but I'm going to leave that one there just because of the caveat you added in. I could be wrong, but I'm going to leave that one there. I'm going to guess the one that is a dream is seeing opera.
Nneka McGee:So you are correct that I have run a half marathon. I've run several. I wish I had not stopped. It was exciting. Well, I ran track and I was very slow in high school. Well, I ran track and I was very slow in high school, but I didn't run for a long time until there were nonprofit organizations where you could run to help raise funds, and so from that, you know, I did a series of path marathons and so that was exciting. I actually do sing and did sing opera.
Amber Ivey:Beautiful, I'm so mad at myself. I actually do sing and did sing opera. That is beautiful. I'm so mad at myself. I think the qualify I used to remove. I should have used it to say it was the dream, but no that's so cool you sing opera. That is beautiful. I have one friend that sings opera and that is just such a rare talent. I did not pick up anything in your background where I would have been able to guess that one.
Nneka McGee:And, of course, yes, my dream. I don't have that cooking gene, I don't know what it is, but I have dreams like I watch the cooking shows and I'm like I really wish I could do that, if only like even the kids you see, like the chopper kids, and kids painting stars and I'm like these kids can run tables around me, so yes, you can burn water, kids you can burn water.
Amber Ivey:Kids, take it from me yes, you can, and I will plus one that 100%. I always wanted to sing. I cannot sing, I also can't cook, but I don't want to cook. So we have some things in common there. But if I could sing, that's what I would be doing with my life, I'm pretty sure. So that's probably why I don't want to cook. So we have some things in common there. But if I could sing, that's what I would be doing with my life, I'm pretty sure. So that's probably why I can't. So I can do something else. But before we go, do you have any other advice or any tips you want to leave with kids who want to learn more about AI and how they can use it safely or responsibly? But anything to share, feel free to leave it here.
Nneka McGee:Oh yeah, I just again in wanting to learn about AI, and I know it's hard because we're kids, but a great place to start is with parents, legal guardians, teachers, school, just because those are conduits, and what I mean by conduits are pathways to getting the safest and most responsible information about artificial intelligence. Again, I'm going to recommend the organizations. If it was to start, it would be ISTE Kid Friendly Language. There's another and I'll provide this link as well because, again, and I love things that were done pre-2022. And there is a gentleman who did a series of videos for PBS around AI and you know you'll have this link. It's very kid friendly. It'll be a great way for students to learn about AI in a safe and really accessible way.
Amber Ivey:Thank you for that. I can't wait to add that to the show notes and to check it out myself. I'm a big fan of PBS and I didn't know about this, so really excited for you to send that over. Is there anything else you want to share with the listeners?
Nneka McGee:First, that I just had a great time listening and I'm always excited to talk with young people. You are the future. That's why I love education. My parents were educators. Like I said, they had 70 years of education in between their years of service. I have been an educator for 17 years and just to have the opportunity to engage with young people and to support them as they shape their own futures is always exciting.
Amber Ivey:I love that. That's an amazing way to end. Thank you so much for joining us today, nneka, and thank you all for listening, excuse me, and thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe to AI for Kids and stay curious, take care. Thank you for joining us as we explore the fascinating world of artificial intelligence. Don't keep this adventure to yourself. Download it, share it with your friends. Artificial intelligence. Don't keep this adventure to yourself. Download it, share it with your friends and let everyone else in on the fun. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube. See you next time on AI for Kids.