How a Tech-Savvy Kid Became an AI Advocate—and How You Can Too (Middle+)

What if understanding the human brain could be your secret superpower? Join us for a captivating conversation with Nicolas Gertler, a Yale University student and AI enthusiast, as we explore the fascinating world of artificial intelligence. Nicolas shares his journey from a tech-savvy kid to an AI aficionado, drawing parallels between prompting AI systems and the art of storytelling. Together, we unpack the profound concept of AI alignment, emphasizing the critical need to ensure AI systems reflect human values.

Empowering youth through AI education takes center stage as we highlight the importance of equipping students with the tools to navigate this technological landscape responsibly. Learn about the various pathways into AI, be it technical or policy-focused, and discover how organizations like IncoJustice are advocating for youth involvement in AI decision-making. We focus on the significance of AI ethics, urging students to critically evaluate AI's societal impacts, from privacy concerns to the future of the workforce.

Venturing into the realm of AI-enhanced education, we unveil the potential of AI chatbots like the Luciano Floridi bot, which democratizes access to AI ethics knowledge. Discover how AI can revolutionize traditional learning by generating practice questions and providing personalized feedback while preserving the essence of human creativity. 

Resources:

• Encode Justice
• Luciano Floridi Bot

Chapters

• 0:00 Exploring Artificial Intelligence With Nicholas Gertler
• 9:07 Empowering Youth Through AI Education
• 17:53 Enhancing Education Through AI Chatbots
• 23:27 AI in Education
• 29:49 Exploring AI Adventures for Kids

Transcript

Amber Ivey: 0:29

Welcome to the AI for Kids podcast, where playtime, learning and creating collide bit by bit. Ever wonder how your phone recognizes your face. How does a game learn to get harder as you get better? This is AI. This podcast is designed for kids like you and your human parents, making the complex world of AI easy to understand and, most importantly, fun. So are you ready to unlock the mysteries of artificial intelligence? Subscribe and join us on AI for Kids. Hi everyone, welcome back to AI for Kids. Today we have an incredible guest. Please welcome Nicolas Gertler, a student and AI expert from Yale University. Nicolas, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and why you love working with AI or artificial intelligence?

Nicolas Gertler: 1:17

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on, amber. It's great to speak with you. So my name is Nicolas Gertler. I'm initially from Los Angeles, california, and I'm now a student at Yale University studying cognitive science, which, for those who don't know, cognitive science is essentially studying the mind from a sort of multifaceted perspective, so thinking about computer science, philosophy, linguistics, psychology, anthropology and neuroscience as well. And I'm really interested in exploring artificial intelligence because I think it's going to have such a tremendous impact on our lives and we already sort of see all the ways it's impacting us, from tools like ChatGPT to image algorithms like Midjourney and things like that. But what really inspired my interest in AI was when I watched a really cool documentary on YouTube about how AI is affecting so many different fields, even AI that is searching for aliens. So I realized that it was having such a broad impact on society and I really wanted to figure out how we can harness this technology to create more engaged and enriched learning experiences for students. So that's my focus.

Amber Ivey: 2:27

What was your favorite subject when you were a kid? Did you always like technology?

Nicolas Gertler: 2:32

Yeah, so I've always sort of had a knack for technology. I've always loved thinking about how we can solve different problems that we're facing, so my sort of introduction to technology was just simple IT support. So I always loved playing with different Apple products, for example. I supported a lot of my different teachers when I was in elementary school with thinking about how they can solve different tech issues that they were facing in the classroom. So, yeah, so, for example, you know, like the projector wasn't working or something like that before they would call tech support. They knew that I was sort of had a knack for this and they would ask me to support them.

Nicolas Gertler: 3:06

But what that really led to, and in terms of my work in artificial intelligence, is taking those simple problem solving techniques that I started to work on in elementary school and I turned that into a passion for understanding technical systems and learning how to code. But I think a really exciting thing about AI is you don't need to know how to code or you don't need to have a lot of technical skills in order to engage with it. The systems that we have today that perhaps many of you heard of or interacted all they take is just natural language in order to talk with them. So you're able to talk with an AI like you're talking to a human and it's able to give you responses that make you think, wow, what am I talking to?

Nicolas Gertler: 3:46

Is this a human or is this an AI? And it's pretty easy to feel like some sort of similarity and talking with an AI system in a way that feels natural.

Amber Ivey: 3:57

And what was your favorite subject? It?

Nicolas Gertler: 3:59

was actually always English and so I had this knack for technology, but I really loved English because I love thinking about different stories and different pathways in which stories could unfold. And I think this really relates to my passion for AI, because, even though English isn't a very technical field like computer sciences, the fact that I love thinking about writing and about storytelling influences how I think about our interaction with artificial intelligence systems. So, for example, when I'm trying to prompt an artificial intelligence system, I think about how to tell a story. What does prompting mean? Yeah, so prompting means talking with AI systems in a way where we want to communicate the tasks that we want the artificial intelligence system to do. So if I want an AI system to help me write some code, I can just describe what I want that code to do, break it down into steps and then send that to the AI system, and then I'll be able to execute something. So prompting is really just talking to AI systems.

Amber Ivey: 5:02

That's a very like good example. I just need to say that to adults as well. I love that. If you could have any superpower, what would it be and why?

Nicolas Gertler: 5:11

I would say honestly, it would be the superpower to understand the brain, and I know that's not really what instantly comes to mind when even I think of superpowers. But because we're talking about no, but I like it Because we're talking about AI here we're also interested in understanding what really makes us human. How does our brain work? How do we function? And that's sort of a question that's still ongoing.

Nicolas Gertler: 5:35

There's so much more research and work that needs to be done in neuroscience, but as we build other intelligent systems, we fundamentally are also interested in understanding ourselves. So if I had the ability to understand the mind and have a good grasp of what makes us human, I feel like we can impart some of those values to then making AI systems that also share the same values that we do, and I think that's something really important. Another sort of key term that I'll raise is AI alignment. So ensuring that AI systems have the same value as human systems is something that's a really important area of research that I think a lot of people and a lot of students who are watching this may find some interest in.

Amber Ivey: 6:18

Oh yeah, and I've never heard that term before. So even me, I'm learning a good amount about what it means to think about AI and humans together, how they all connect together to help us to understand AI beyond what we understand it currently is really fascinating, and I think that kind of gets into your role at Yale and University. What does it mean to be Yale's AI ambassador?

Nicolas Gertler: 6:43

Yeah, absolutely so.

Nicolas Gertler: 6:44

As the AI ambassador at Yale, my core goal is essentially to work with students, faculty and administration to think about what role we want AI to have in our classrooms and our work. So what that means is I talk with faculty about ways in which we can incorporate AI into teaching and learning, how it can enable students to be more enriched and engaged, and as well as how we can have a transparent environment about AI. I think this is so important, as AI is certainly part of how we, of the systems through which we access information and through which we consume information and think about organizing information. So if it's a core part of our lives now, as we see with tools like ChatGPT, how can we enable students in classrooms to use AI to help them research, or to use AI to help them brainstorm, or use AI to help them create an image that is related to the project they're presenting? So, essentially, what are the ways in which we can integrate AI into education, into our classrooms, in a way that supports students towards having more interesting and engaged learning experiences?

Amber Ivey: 7:53

How did you first get interested in AI, to even know that you wanted to be an AI ambassador and to help people literally understand this thing? That has been around for some time, but it's really gotten a lot of popularity due to tools like ChatGPT.

Nicolas Gertler: 8:06

Yeah, absolutely so. My journey with AI started around five years ago when I saw a YouTube video about AI's effect on so many different areas in the world, such as finding aliens and thinking about farming, and so it was really just an experience in which I saw that there was this big technology and it was going to have such an enormous impact on people's lives, and from there I started learning to code in Python in order to build AI systems, and as I continued my work in the AI space, I realized I was so fascinated with thinking about how AI is going to affect society and the large scale implications that it would have beyond just developing the technology. So that's when I sort of transitioned to working more on policy and thinking a lot about these issues. In a way, that was about how can we ensure that humans have a lot of power and agency in deciding what our role with AI will be in the future. So I saw a huge opportunity in education after ChatGPT came out to say that this is something that a lot of students are probably going to turn to and that it's really important that as educators, as institutions, that we equip students with the tools in order to be able to use Catch EPT in a way that helps their learning rather than replaces it.

Nicolas Gertler: 9:32

So I started working with organizations like IncoJustice, which I'm still associated with, and Uncojustice focuses on youth empowerment for AI. So we're a coalition of youth advocating for human-centered and safe AI. Our approach is that we want to ensure that youth, who are most impacted by AI technology, have a voice, have a seat at the table, and that they are part of these decisions. So as I started exploring this space further and I got to Yale, I reached out to the administration, said would love to collaborate on this work and they said it would be great to have student voice in this area. So I essentially collaborated with them and I'm really enjoying the role. One of the biggest things I encourage is for students to explore AI, understand what it means and see what role and think about what role you want it to have in your community.

Amber Ivey: 10:25

So you created your position sounds like right. Yes, Okay, so how can other kids also go and be an AI ambassador? How can I know you're not a kid, but how can you looked at AI when you were under 18 for the first time? So how can kids who are younger become AI ambassadors?

Nicolas Gertler: 10:46

Yeah, absolutely. So I think it's important to note that, if students are interested in AI, there's so many different paths in which you can take in the AI space, so you can focus more on building systems, on coding, on the technical aspects of AI. You can also focus on policy and, within these two areas, you can think about AI's role in democracy, ai's role in education, ai's role in criminal justice. There's so many different subsets of AI that students can explore, which I think is exciting because it's affecting everything. So figuring out where you want to be, where you want to play a role, is really interesting to think about.

Nicolas Gertler: 11:24

But for students who are interested in becoming AI ambassadors, I would say think a lot about how you're currently using AI as a tool right now and how that's something that you could advocate for with your school. So if you're finding that you're using AI to help you learn, you can think about talking with your school. So if you're finding that you're using AI to help you learn, you can think about talking with your school administration and saying, hey, we should be able to co-create these policies around AI, not just in this particular classroom, but as a school. Get involved in that advocacy and have that conversation with administrators and then, as that conversation continues to grow, you can think about how you can play a core role in facilitating discussions between students and faculty in this work.

Amber Ivey: 12:08

I love the idea of meeting kids where they are and being able to go to your teacher's principal or your guidance counselor and say, hey, I have this really cool idea. I want to help ensure whenever we decide if we're already using it or whenever we decide to use AI we have what we need and we're part of the conversation. I love that idea and thank you for sharing that. And one of the other cool things I like about some of the work you're doing is that you actually lead workshops to talk about a thing called AI ethics and you try to help people learn about it First before we dig into it. Can you explain AI ethics in a way that a kid can understand?

Nicolas Gertler: 12:44

Absolutely so. Ai ethics is essentially thinking about what role artificial intelligence is going to have in society, if we think of AI as a tool that has a lot of capability and will have a lot of impact on society, so it's important to think about how that may affect the job market, what skills students will have. Will they be working with AI tools in their roles in the job market? Absolutely, they're going to be collaborating with AI and using it, in which that can either constrain us in getting access to information or expand the ways in which we're able to understand this information. So it's essentially thinking about what ethical and societal role that AI will have on all of us.

Amber Ivey: 13:34

It's just so important for us as adults to think about it. But I know it's also important for kids to think about it. But I know it's also important for kids to think about AI ethics. Why is it important for them to learn about a topic like AI ethics and how this thing interacts with the world?

Nicolas Gertler: 13:49

Yeah, absolutely, given that students today are the most impacted by decisions that are being made by AI. We don't just want this to be a tool that we're embracing without understanding the full effects of the technology. So if we have students who are thinking about questions like how is AI going to affect the workforce, how is it going to affect my job, how is my privacy being protected when I'm interacting with AI systems Things like that, thinking about the questions of not just what does the surface level technology do, but what does it mean for us, and then once we have those thought processes in which students are thinking about what role we want AI, that's then a lever for change that students can employ in order to say, hey, I'm actually not comfortable with AI being used in this way. I don't want it to take away privacy and I don't want it to be used in a way that's not helping my learning. So once students are part of these conversations, then they can have change on a larger scale.

Amber Ivey: 14:53

So what it sounds like you're talking about is that kids need to be a little bit something we call AI literate, right? What does AI literacy mean? And then why is it important for kids to have some level of AI literacy? Like we know what literacy is, like our ability to read and understand concepts, but what does it mean when you apply that term to AI?

Nicolas Gertler: 15:16

So AI literacy is the ability to use AI technologies and applications in a way that's beneficial to us, and it also includes the term of AI ethics, which I just brought up.

Nicolas Gertler: 15:28

It's also not just being able to use these tools well, but also thinking about the impacts of using these tools. So it's really important that people are AI literate, because AI technologies are already a core part of how we navigate the world and it's only going to increase from here. If you think about a tool like Disney Plus or Netflix, where you're going to watch content, there's a lot of AI technologies that are already embedded into these systems that affect how we find content and watch content content. You think about tools like Instagram and Twitter or X threads, things of this nature, tiktok as well. They have AI that is foundationally affecting what content you watch. So, thinking about understanding not just how does the technology work, but also what does this mean for where I put my attention? What does this mean for what I focus on? It's essentially thinking about how we can have the full picture of, first, how does the technology work and, second, how does this technology impact me and my community?

Amber Ivey: 16:32

I love the way you explain that and break that down and also remind the kids that they're already interacting with AI, whether it's through social media channels or watching different streaming services like you said Disney Plus, netflix that literally say we think you like this. That is AI behind it, so thank you for breaking that down for them. We talked a little bit about chatbots earlier and I wanted to tell everyone listening that you actually created one. Can you tell us about it and how you believe your AI helps people learn about AI?

Nicolas Gertler: 17:03

Yeah, absolutely so. The chatbot that I created essentially is a tool for people to learn about philosophy and about AI ethics, which is what we just talked about.

Amber Ivey: 17:14

What is philosophy?

Nicolas Gertler: 17:15

So philosophy this is a hard one, no worry. Philosophy is the study of what it means to be human. I guess that's a simple way that I could break it down. So the goal of the chatbot is to teach people about philosophy and about AI ethics, and with this chatbot, we want people to be able to learn about these topics in a way in which it's very accessible. So we realized that a lot of important information about philosophy so understanding what it means to be human and about AI ethics so understanding what it means to use these technologies and the impacts of these technologies. We realized that a lot of information that talks about this was in academic circles and areas that a lot of students like you wouldn't ordinarily receive access to.

Nicolas Gertler: 18:05

So one of the things that we want to do is create a free tool whereby anyone could just go on this website, ask a question about AI ethics or philosophy or a similar area, and get an answer that is from one of the leading voices in AI, ethics and philosophy. So it's trained, which essentially means, rather than just being a general purpose AI system, or large language model, as you might call it, it specifically has all of the information. It specifically has all of the information that a particular scholar has written about this. So if you think about, like, all the information, all the ideas that are there, you put that into a chatbot and then people can talk to it. People can say, hey, what does AI mean?

Nicolas Gertler: 18:55

What impacts will AI have on the workforce? What does it mean for AI to be integrated into social media? What does it mean to be human? Even you know foundational questions and it'll share some insights about that. And we think that's really important because, as we move towards a world where AI is already a part of how we interact with it, but also it's becoming a bigger part, we want people to know hey, these are really complex questions. Let's give you a good starting point to think through them.

Amber Ivey: 19:24

Two questions what is the name of the bot? And then, who is the philosopher you all are basing it off of or trained it on?

Nicolas Gertler: 19:30

The name of the bot is the Luciano Flory bot, affectionately named Luflot bot, which is just the nickname. So all of the work that the chatbot is trained on, which essentially is fed into the chatbot's data, is based off the work of Luciano Floridi, who is one of the world's most cited philosophers and actually created the term philosophy of information in the 1990s. So he's been thinking about this even before I was born, even before a lot of people were talking about AI and about technology having such a big impact, and we think it's really important with this chatbot because it shows, by being able to access chatbot, you can ask questions and receive information about literature he wrote 10 years ago and about literature he wrote now. So it's really interesting as well to see how the ideas have evolved, the conversations have changed, but how ultimately, they all build on each other. This tool equips you with the knowledge to be able to think through these really hard questions.

Amber Ivey: 20:32

Okay, so how can young people and their guardians use this and learn more about AI? Where do they go To?

Nicolas Gertler: 20:39

use a chatbot.

Amber Ivey: 20:40

All you have to do is go to the website LucianoFluoritycom slash bot and we'll put it in the show notes so, parents, you don't have to remember that.

Nicolas Gertler: 20:49

Excellent, and then from there, once you go to the chatbot, it will share a little bit of information about it, how it works. What are some limitations as an AI model? We're talking about AI and I think it's an important footnote to add here that AI has so many limitations. It's ultimately just a statistical model that's predicting the next word and the next sentence, so it doesn't really have the same understanding as humans do, which is important when we're building these systems. To compare how do we think as humans, how do AI think as humans? And they complement each other. But once students or parents access this chatbot, they're able to ask any question or generate a question using generate a question button. So if they're not really sure where to start, they can ask it one of those questions that we've prepared and then from there, they can get an answer about whatever they're wondering about philosophy or about AI.

Amber Ivey: 21:41

I love that you have like the place where you can say generate a question for me, for people who don't understand where to start, because some people have never played with these chatbots and sometimes it's a little intimidating.

Amber Ivey: 21:53

So being able to literally do this alongside your parent or parents, being able to do this and at least have it start with questions, it can help to kick off other questions that you should add or think about. So I love that you all add that in there and we'll definitely put the website in the show notes for parents as well as their kids to check out. And I wanted to shift a little bit of the conversation not fully, but one of the things I admired about you is that you wrote a plan to help schools use AI in teaching, and some places are banning AI, some places aren't, so like it literally is all over the board with how schools are thinking about using AI. How can AI make learning more fun and interesting for kids? I would love to hear more about the plan and how you think folks can use this thing to help our youth as they're learning about a lot of different subjects.

Nicolas Gertler: 22:43

Yeah, absolutely so. I wrote this AI and education plan in around June of 2023, so about a year ago from now and although so much has changed in the education space, thinking about AI's role, a lot of the core principles still hold up. First, it's important that we facilitate and foster a transparent environment around AI so that people such as students and their instructors can have honest and open conversations about how we're using them. We don't want this to be a tool that anyone views as an adversary, but rather as a tool that we're thinking about deeply and we're thinking about hey, can this help us learn? So, as for ways in which AI is helping us learn, we think about tools like AI chatbots.

Nicolas Gertler: 23:27

Let's say you have a neuroscience exam or anthropology exam or any subject math, english, history. What you can do is you can put your notes into the AI system and say hey, can you generate some practice questions for me about this? So if I'm studying US history and I just put my lecture notes, then it can give me some ways in which I can answer questions about US history, whether that's multiple choice or free response, and it can also help you think through different issues. So if you want to brainstorm about a particular topic you're feeling stuck. It can help you just begin and kickstart those ideas, and it can also give you feedback on your work.

Nicolas Gertler: 24:04

So let's say you write a really interesting paragraph and you want to think about how you can make the paragraph better. You could say ask the AI how can I make this paragraph better, what are the strengths or the weaknesses? And then from there it'll be able to share with you. Oh, maybe you want to rethink this sentence, maybe you want to make it more clear. So there are, of course, many limitations with AI and learning, but I think it's important to and I think it's important to highlight the ways in which it can help people actually learn rather than do the learning for them.

Amber Ivey: 24:34

I think a lot of people are nervous about it doing the learning for them, as to why some schools have banned it and why some teachers aren't inviting it into the classroom. But I love your approach of humans and AI together. The things that humans do a great job that AI are probably never going to be able to recreate, unless it gets to another level of AGI or AI that we don't want to talk about today. But I really want folks to keep the creativity, keep the things that matter to us, and think about this as another tool that they layer on to help them be able to do the things they really want to do.

Amber Ivey: 25:06

For me, like I use AI to help with things you just mentioned. Like, if I want to look at something I'm writing and I want to improve it, I use it to help me learn and to kind of tutor me on things that I maybe would talk about with a colleague. But since right now we're mostly remote, I don't have a colleague who I can like walk up to to say, hey, what do you think about this? Now I can literally just say to the AI hey, what do you think about this? How should I improve this? Did I miss anything. How else should I approach it? And I think having that approach, like you said, and making it a learning environment where we're working together, makes it a totally different story, for sure.

Nicolas Gertler: 25:41

Yeah, absolutely.

Amber Ivey: 25:42

We're going to play a quick game and then we have a few more questions before we wrap up. So our quick game is called Tech Trivia. I'm going to ask you some fun questions about technology and you have to answer them as quickly as you can. Kids at home, you can also play along, so don't think about it, just. Whatever the answer is, say it. What year was AI created?

Nicolas Gertler: 26:05

The year that AI was coined was in, I think, around 1960s. But more recent AI what is called generative pre-trained transformers, or I should say transformers was in a paper in I think around 2017.

Amber Ivey: 26:26

I don't remember the year for that one, so the first technical use is right around the 60s. It was 1956. Very close to that and, like you said, the later paper came. I think it was 2017, but I don't want to misquote on that. Kids, look it up and let us know. Have your parents send us a note to let us know what the answer is, all right. Second question Hopefully they get easier. What coding language has a plus in its name C++.

Amber Ivey: 26:59

There we go. Okay, great, thank you, so that one wasn't too hard. And then, last but not least, what year did the iphone first come out?

Nicolas Gertler: 27:10

I think it came out in 2004, the year I was born nope, 2007.

Amber Ivey: 27:17

you're thinking of the um ipod? Ipod iPod yes, that's true, yeah because the iPhone came out after that. But I think you're thinking of iPod yeah.

Nicolas Gertler: 27:25

Yeah.

Amber Ivey: 27:26

So we're going to do something fun to learn a little bit about you. It's called Two Truths and a Dream. So you tell us two truths about your life and one dream you had as a kid and we'll guess in this case, I'll guess as well as the kids at home or in their car which one is the dream.

Nicolas Gertler: 27:44

Sounds good. So the first one I'll share is I've worked with the US Department of Education on AI and education. The second one I'll share is that I've spoken at a Google event around AI and education, and then the third one is that I partnered with Microsoft on integrating AI and education applications to their customers.

Amber Ivey: 28:09

Let me talk through my thought process really quickly so the folks who are listening can also hear. So the education thing seems right, because I do know you have some background working in government, so I do believe you partner with them. I can't remember if Google or Microsoft was on your resume, so I'm trying to remember which one it is. I'm going to lean and say that the dream is Google.

Nicolas Gertler: 28:35

The dream is actually Microsoft. So I had the privilege of speaking at a Google lecture, but I have yet to partner with Microsoft on distributing my technology. That's hopefully one step above my technology Once it's been empirically verified, once people see it's a great tool and we can distribute it to as many people as possible.

Amber Ivey: 28:57

And let us know when it happens so we can definitely update the show notes to say, hey, this dream happened, kids, and it can happen it to as many people as possible. And let us know when it happens so we can definitely update the show notes to say, hey, this dream happened, kids, and it could happen to you too. Before we go, do you have any advice for kids who may want to learn about AI or AI ethics?

Nicolas Gertler: 29:10

Yeah, absolutely. It's so, so easy today to learn about AI. All you have to do is put in a Google search and think about how is AI affecting this field? I'm interested in Say I'm really interested in marketing. How is AI affecting marketing, how is it affecting farming, how is it affecting human interaction, how is it affecting medicine, and you can see the implications. So just explore, be curious and just continue following whatever makes you passionate, whatever makes you excited and, before you know it, you can turn those goals, those dreams, into things that you've actually done and that you're proud about.

Amber Ivey: 29:49

Nicolas, thank you so much for joining us today and thank you to all the listeners who joined us again for another episode of AI for Kids. Make sure to subscribe and please stay curious, and we will see you all in a couple of weeks.

Nicolas Gertler: 30:02

Thank you, Amber.

Amber Ivey: 30:03

Thank you for joining us as we explore the fascinating world of artificial intelligence. Don't keep this adventure to yourself. Download it, share it with your friends and let everyone else in on the fun. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube. See you next time on AI for Kids.